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From: rubywand@swbell.net
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2,comp.answers,news.answers
Subject: Apple II Csa2 FAQs: Diskettes, Part 7/23
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         The complete set of Csa2 text FAQs and Resource files is
         maintained on the U. Iowa Ground site and mirrors. The
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Archive-name: apple2/faq/part7
Posting-Frequency: monthly
Last-modified: 2001/2/1
URL: http://home.swbell.net/rubywand/A2FAQs1START.html

The comp.sys.apple2 Usenet newsgroup Apple II FAQs originate from
the Ground Apple II archive, 1997-2001. Administrator: Steve Nelson

Csa2 FAQs-on-Ground ref: Csa2DSKETTE.txt  rev035 February 2001






Diskettes


 001- How many tracks can I use on a 5.25" diskette?
 002- Can I use high-density 3.5" and 5.25" diskettes on my A2?
 003- How can I tell DD from HD diskettes if they are not labeled?
 004- Some old 5.25" disks with splotches don't boot. What gives?
 005- How can I defragment a diskette and what is the speed gain?
 006- Why aren't my old diskettes recognized by GS/OS?
 007- Can I read Apple II diskettes on my PC?
 008- Where the heck can I buy double density 3.5" & 5.25" diskettes?
 009- Where can I find out about different floppy disk formats?
 010- How can I copy disks?






From: Rubywand

001- How many tracks can I use on a 5.25" diskette? So far,
     I've heard 35, 36, and 40. What's the actual number?

     The standard number of tracks on a 5.25" diskette is set by DOS 3.3 and ProDOS at 35, numbered 0-34 ($00-$22 in hexadecimal).

     The original Disk ][ drive can usually handle 36 tracks with no problem. Newer 5.25" drives can handle 40 tracks.

     Various modified versions of DOS 3.3 allow using 36 tracks and a few allow using 40 tracks. These mods, especially the 36-track versions, were fairly popular before the advent of 3.5" diskettes when an extra track made a noticable difference in capacity. However, unless the extra capacity is vital for some specific application, it is best to stick with 35 tracks in order to retain full compatibility with disk utilities (such as Copy II Plus) and other wares.

----------------------------


002- Can I use high-density 3.5" and 5.25" diskettes on my Apple II?

     I did some magnetization tests on Double Density (800kB) and High Density (1.4MB) diskette surfaces. The tested DD surface produced more than twice the deflection of the tested HD surface. Clearly, there is a big difference in signal levels required to reliably store data on HD vs. DD.

     In fact, 5.25" HD (1.2MB) diskettes will not work at all on Apple Disk ][ drives. The 3.5" HD's may work fine on your 800k drives; or, they may just seem to work fine. Either way, there's no question: a drive optimized for DD will not be optimized for HD. If you'd rather not 'roll the dice' on your software collection, stick with Double Density diskettes.

----------------------------


003- How can I tell the difference between unlabeled DD and HD diskettes?

     3.5" HD (1.4MB) diskettes come with a square notch in the upper left corner. DD (800kB) 3.5" diskettes do not come with this notch. In the early days of PC computing, some PC users punched or drilled notch holes in DD diskettes and used them as HD diskettes. If a 3.5" diskette has a circular notch in the upper left corner, it is likely to be a DD diskette.

     DD 5.25" (360kB) diskettes look very much like HD 5.25" (1.2MB) diskettes. About the only remotely observable difference is that DD diskette surfaces often exhibit a more brownish cast whereas HD diskette surfaces are generally dark grey or black.

     The surest test for 5.25" diskettes is to place the diskette into an Apple II 5.25" drive and try to do a DOS 3.3 format. If it formats with no problem, it is almost certainly a DD diskette.

----------------------------


004- Recently I found that some of my old 5.25" disks would
     not boot. A check showed splotches etched on the surface
     of the media. What's going on?

     As you may recall, a number of the classier 5.25" diskette brands employed (still employ?) a lubricant on their jacket liners. While the lube worked to reduce drag and noise, it also, evidently, served as a growth medium for a particularly nasty plastic and/or oxide-eating fungus!

     It's probably a good idea to check each of your old diskettes. Immediately backup any diskettes with splotchy discolorations.

----------------------------


005- How can I defragment a diskette and what is the speed gain?

     You can defragment a diskette by doing a File Copy of all files to a blank diskette or blank RAM disk. Files on the copy diskette or RAM disk will be almost completely unfragmented. A whole-disk copy back to the original completes the process. Tests show that this method produces much speedier diskettes than using a utility intended for optimizing hard disks.

     For a nearly full 'workhorse' diskette which has seen may deletions and additions, you can expect the File Copy defragmentation method to yield a 30% to 40% improvement in access speed.

----------------------------


006- Why aren't my MECC and many other old diskettes recognized
     by GS/OS and mounted on the Finder display?

     The problem you mention is fairly common. GS/OS via its FSTs has pretty strict definitions for what qualifies as a valid DOS or ProDOS diskette. For example, perfectly good 36-track DOS 3.3 diskettes will not be mounted by the Finder just because the number of tracks is 36 instead of the expected 35.

     Naturally, copy-protected diskettes have practically no chance of being recognized. Almost certainly, this is the reason the Finder will not mount your MECC disks.

     You can, still, run software from most copy-protected diskettes by just booting them.

____________________________



From: Chris Norley

007- Can I read Apple II diskettes on my PC?

     A while back I requested some information regarding the reading of Apple II floppies by an PC. There was a hugh response both in solutions and requests for a summary of solutions.


ORIGINAL POST: 

     We have some old data from a small NMR spectrometer that was run from an Apple IIe. The same spectrometer is now run from a DOS machine and we'd like to be able to access the old data from the PC.

     Does anyone know of or possess some utility to allow the data from the 5 1/4" Apple II floppies to be read from the PC? Any hints as to program names, ftp sites, etc. would be greatly appreciated.


SUMMARY OF RESPONSES:
--------------------

>From uli@izfm.uni-stuttgart.de

Les Ferch

It can't be done with software alone. There is a card called the MatchPoint PC card that will let you read and write Apple II DOS, ProDOS, and CP/M disks on a PC 5.25" 360K drive. We used to have one installed in an XT here and it worked fine.

The other common way of moving the data is to connect an Apple II to a PC using a null modem cable and using comm programs such as Kermit to transfer the data.

------------------

Curt Schroeder

It is not possible for a 5.25" PC floppy drive to read Apple II disks.  They use incompatible recording technologies.  Your options are to get your data into an Apple that can write MS-DOS 3.5" disks (Apple IIgs or Macintosh) or transfer via serial link (either via modem or null-modem cable).  The other possibility is to use an Apple II equipped with a PC Transporter and either has a 3.5" drive or 5.25" PC floppy drive(s) attached.

-------------------

Michael Hoffberg

About a year ago, I picked up card for my ibm made by TrackStar.  It is basically an apple II that sits inside your IBM.  When you enable it, it can boot off an apple drive, it uses the ibm keyboard and monitor.

When I go home I only use it to play moon patrol (I am too lazy to find my other games).

In any case, I think that it is possible to transfer files between the ibm and apple with the card.  I have never tried it though.

------------------

Fred R. Opperdoes

Any Apple II (E or GS) owner having an Applied Engineering PC Transporter card is able to do the job easily. It is maybe not easy to find such a person in your neighborhood. Another possibility would be that you ask someone with an Apple IIGS to have your 5 1/4" Dos 3.3 or Prodos disk transcribed to a 3.5" Prodos disk. Every IIGS owner would be able to do so. Files on such disks can then easily be converted to MsDOS files on an MsDOS disk on a Macintosh using the Apple File Exchange Utility that comes with

 every modern Mac.

-------------------

Leo Connolly

I don't think this is doable.  There are limitations in the PC drive hardware which make it impossible to read Apple II disks.  (And the same is true in reverse, for exactly the same reasons).

I suggest the following.

Transfer the Apple II data to a 3.5" disk.  This is easy on a IIGS if you use a utility such as Copy II Plus.

Use Apple File Convert on a Macintosh to convert the Apple II files to MS-DOS format.  Caution: older versions of this utility cannot handle MS-DOS 3.5" disks, but the newer ones can.

Or: send your data through a modem from the Apple to the PC.

------------------

Leonard Erickson

It can't be done without extra hardware. The Apple II didn't use a disk controller chip, it used an odd circuit instead. So, machines using the industry standard controller chips can't read Apple disks.

You'll need a COPYIIPC deluxe option board or some such. Central Point Software used to sell them.

Another approach is to track down one of the add-on boards that was essentially an Apple II on a PC card. It hooks to the 5.25" drive and plugs into the bus. And you've got an Apple II in your PC.

-----------------

tomk@crash.cts.com

The cheapest method to get the data would to do a "NULL MODEM" transfer between the two computers.

____________________________



From: Rubywand

008- Where the heck can I buy the double density (DD) 5.25" and 3.5"
     diskettes required for my Apple II drives?

Albert Franklin (email: jfrankl1@mindspring.com) sells 5.25" DS/DD diskettes. 

AllBusiness.com* ( http://allbusiness.firstsource.com/ ) sells 5.25" & 3.5" DD diskettes. Good selection but beware of screwy 'shipping weights' and errors in quantity pricing (e.g. 10 for $0.26 really means box of 10 at 26 cents each).

Grace Ashley (352-748-7739, http://users.southeast.net/~rakessel/index.html ) sells Apple II educational software and 'blank' 5.25" diskettes

Big E Supply* ( http://www.bigesupply.com/ ) sells 5.25" & 3.5" DD diskettes.

Meritline.com ( http://store.yahoo.com/meritline/floppydisk.html ) sells 3.5" DD diskettes in bulk (e.g. 500 for $15).

*Note: best prices from these two sources seem to be for these items:
  5.25" DS/DD Verbatim #18188    about $2.50 for box of 10
  3.5"  DD    BASF     #343799A  about $2.70 for box of 10

Thrift shops: Brian Hammack reports finding packs of used 5.25" diskettes at bargain prices.

____________________________



From: David Wilson

009- Where can I find out about different floppy disk formats?

     Here is a table of floppy disk formats I have built up over the years:



disk  speed  rate   encode   trk     sector  trk/hd  size    disk
size"  rpm   kb/s   scheme   kb      cnt*sz  count   kBytes  type
---------------------------------------------------------------------
8     360    500     FM      41.67   26*128  77/1    260     SSSD (8)
8     360    500     FM      41.67   26*128  77/2    520     DSSD (8)
8     360    500     MFM     83.33   26*256  77/1    520     SSDD (9)
8     360    500     MFM     83.33   26*256  77/2    1040    DSDD (9)

5.25  300    250     FM      25.00   8*256   40/1    80      SSSD
5.25  300    250     FM      25.00   8*256   40/2    160     DSSD
5.25  300    245     GCR     49.00   16*256  35/1    140     SSDD (1)
5.25  300    250     MFM     50.00   8*512   40/1    160     SSDD (3)
5.25  300    250     MFM     50.00   9*512   40/1    180     SSDD (3)
5.25  300    250     MFM     50.00   8*512   40/2    320     DSDD (3)
5.25  300    250     MFM     50.00   9*512   40/2    360     DSDD (3)
5.25  300    250     MFM     50.00   9*512   80/2    720     DSDD
5.25  360    300     MFM     50.00   9*512   40/2    360     DSDD (4)
5.25  360    300     MFM     50.00   9*512   80/2    720     DSDD
5.25  360    500     MFM     83.33   15*512  80/2    1200    DSHD (4)

3.5   300    250     MFM     50.00   9*512   80/2    720     DSDD (5)
3.5   300    250     MFM     50.00   5*1024  80/2    800     DSDD (2)
3.5   var    var     GCR     var     var*512 80/2    800     DSDD (7)
3.5   300    500     MFM     100.00  18*512  80/2    1440    DSHD (6)
3.5   var    var     GCR     var     var*512 80/2    1600    DSHD (A)
3.5   300    1000    MFM     200.00  36*512  80/2    2880    DSED


(1)  Apple ][
(2)  Applix
(3)  IBM PC
(4)  IBM PC/AT
(5)  IBM PS/2 25,30
(6)  IBM PS/2 > 30
(7)  Macintosh & Apple //
(8)  IBM 3740
(9)  IBM System 34
(A)  AE 1.6MB drive on Apple //

____________________________



From: Rubywand

010- How can I copy disks?

     Neither ProDOS nor DOS 3.3 includes a built-in Disk Copy command. So, you will need to use some kind of copy utility. The ProDOS standard Utilities Disk includes a Disk Copy option. The DOS 3.3 System Master disk includes a Disk Copy program named "COPYA".

     The above options are okay for copying regular 35-track, 16-sector diskettes which are not copy protected. The newer version of the ProDOS Utilities may be adequate for copying many 3.5" diskettes, too.

     The best general purpose disk copying and file management utility for 8-bit Apple II's is Copy II Plus.  It can copy unprotected disks fairly quickly and, using built-in parms, it can make copies of many copy protected disks. Version 5.5 is the last DOS 3.3-only version and is a bit better for use with DOS 3.3 disks. Versions 7.2 through 8.3 are good for both DOS 3.3 and ProDOS disks including 3.5" diskettes.

     The best copy-only utility for most non copy protected 5.25" (DOS 3.3, ProDOS, ...) diskettes is Disk Muncher. It is fast; and, the current version will try to copy 36 tracks (used on some diskettes) and includes verification checks. A good fast-copy utility for 3.5" diskettes is Diversi-Copy.

     You can find Disk Muncher, Copy II Plus, and other utilities mentioned above on several archives as separate files, on disks in ShrinkIt whole-disk (.sdk) form, and on emulator disk images (.dsk files).  For instance, see the Disks folder in Ground's Useful Stuff folder at ...

 ftp://ground.ecn.uiowa.edu/apple2/useful.stuff/Disks/ .


     If a lot of the software you need to copy is from MECC, a good try is to get an MECC copy program by John Kielkopf named "meccopy". It makes deprotected copies of many MECC diskettes. You can find it as meccopy.sdk on Ground at ...

 ftp://ground.ecn.uiowa.edu/2/apple2/apple8/Utils/ .


     You can use the utilities mentioned above on a IIgs just as you would on an 8-bit Apple II. However, for copying 3.5" disks, the easiest way is to use the simple 'drag and drop' capabilities available via the usual Finder desktop.
